Notes Piling Up in Cubase

[initself]

I am using Cubase VST/32 on Windows XP with CopperLan v1.1. The timing seems to be really tight and a great experience all around....except when quickly starting and stopping the song and looping back to the first bar. When I do that, there's a delay and the MIDI notes pile on top of one another.

What could be causing that?

[initself]

Another aspect of it - let's say I shutdown Cubase, reopen the song, jump right to the left locator and press play - MIDI notes play perfectly. Do it again, they start piling up. Do it AGAIN, they REALLY start piling up. It's almost like it gets worse the more you start a loop over again.

[CopperPhil]

Hi,

It's the first time such issue is reported. It's probably due to a huge number of messages sent by Cubase when you go back, but it should not because of CopperLan speed...

I need more info to determine what's going wrong. Can you tell me more about your setup? Computer type (processor, memory)? Can you check the CPU usage when you go back (task manager -> performance -> CPU usage history)? What are you doing? Controlling hardware synth or virtual synth from Cubase through CopperLan? spread on several computers? list of virtual MIDI cables/single channel connections? Do you know if some Sysex is sent by Cubase when going back?

[initself]

Yes, sir.

My laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad W701ds. It runs Windows XP Professional SP3. It's using 3 GB RAM (there's 16 GB installed, but Windows XP 32bit can only address 3 GB). I've got an Intel SSD hard drive in it. I am running Cubase VST/32.

I have 8 Virtual Ports connected to the 8 MIDI ports on the AL-88, both in and out. They are all enabled. I am only using one computer. My setup is straightforward, the AL-88 setup to act as an 8x8 from a single PC, just as my Midisport 8x8/s was doing previously.

I am controlling, in my current sequence, 4 devices. I am able to send and receive from each unit. I am able to perform sysex dumps in MIDI-OX (but only when Cubase is shut down, otherwise I get a driver error from MIDI-OX).

Additionally, I hooked up the Midisport 8x8/s to control a single synth as a control and it doesn't have any problem at all looping and starting and stopping MIDI, at least on a single MIDI port. I used this unit at the same time as the AL-88, so it was odd watching the juxtaposition of the working unit and the train wreck.

It's possible that some sysex is being sent, but not very likely. I playback sysex at the start of the song, but that shouldn't affect the duration of the song. I can check the MIDI stream for anomalies.

When I get to the studio, I will setup a very straightforward test and attempt to monitor the data stream as best I can to see what it contains and if there are any CPU spikes.

I really hope we can work this out. I've been fretting over USB MIDI for over a decade now and I'm so happy that someone figured out a way to flank it! Had I known about the project ahead of time, I would have totally been an investor and a cheerleader. Let's get this damn thing to work!

[initself]

I just found this SOS artlcle: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec07/articles/cubasetech_1207.htm

A significant proportion of Cubase MIDI problems arrived when Steinberg launched their Midex range of interfaces, because they used DirectMusic drivers instead of the more typical Windows MIDI version, largely because this format offered a more precise timestamp, and therefore the likelihood of tighter MIDI timing. Unfortunately, not many other MIDI interfaces had DirectMusic drivers, and in their absence Windows creates 'emulated' DirectMusic drivers with much higher latency and generally lower performance.

Cubase might therefore find Windows MIDI drivers, true DirectMusic drivers, and emulated DirectMusic drivers, and unless all but the most appropriate one is hidden you can end up with two or even three sets of MIDI inputs and outputs, leading to doubled or tripled sets of data during recording or playback. If you end up using emulated drivers your data could be recorded early or late, piled up at the start of a Part, or not recorded at all.

Steinberg's answer was a filter that guessed at the most appropriate MIDI drivers and hid all the others, but the first filter version didn't always choose correctly, and many musicians had to 'unhide' the filtered versions (by dragging the file named 'ignoreportfilter' from the MIDI Port Enabler folder into the main Cubase folder), and then manually configuring their MIDI ports.

However, from Cubase SX/SL and Nuendo versions 3.0.1 onwards, Steinberg introduced a more refined filtering regime: if true DirectMusic drivers are detected, they are used and if not, Windows MIDI drivers are used instead, while emulated DirectMusic ports are never used by default. The filter hides all the unused MIDI ports, and in the majority of systems it works really well.

MAYBE something like that is going on, I don't know.

[initself]

I put 8 8th notes in a 2 bar look at 120 BPM. The list editor in Cubase shows a simple stream of 8th notes, no sysex.

I loops around no problem whatsoever.

When Cubase is running, my CPU shows 1% (!). When I stop the sequence and start again, 3%.

When I start it again, even with just one synth playing, it plays catch up and then plays back properly. You can see all of the 8 MIDI Out LEDs light up when it "resets itself" and then it plays only out of Out 1. So it looks like something is causing the unit to reset all the outputs (?). That's what it looks like anyway. I have no idea what's happening with the CopperLan interfaces.

I tried the same test with Reaper and it works flawlessly, so it looks like the culprit is good ol' Cubase!

I'll keep trying to figure out what Cubase is doing.

[initself]

Looking at the LEDs, it appears that the "reset" is happening when the sequence is stopped, not started.

It does the first bank for 4 (1-4), then the second back of 4 (5-8).

It only does it after playback, not when no sound is playing.

If I don't immediately start it after stopping it, all is well. I wait for the LEDs to reset and I'm good. If I try and play it while this reset thing is happening, then my MIDI stutters.

[initself]

Got it! So stoked!

Edit >> Preferences >> MIDI >> 'Reset' Tab >> Turn off 'Send Reset-Data on Stop'.

Awesome! Thanks your help!

[CopperPhil]

Wow! This is a very interesting feedback!!!

However my help was quite limited, you did all the job yourself Thank you so much, I'm sure it will be useful to other users

BTW the issue is normal... reseting all channels on all ports is time consuming at MIDI speed. It's not a problem using virtual instruments, but going through real MIDI port...

So I hope you enjoy your setup now, many thanks for using CopperLan, and never hesitate to post any question/suggestion/feedback here!

[initself]

Not sure I'm totally out of the woods.

I did a fast wheel rotation on my controller and it seemed to also cause a lot of stuck notes and traffic over the wire that seized up my sequence.

Shouldn't the unit be able to support that kind of MIDI traffic?