Midi Hell

[chrisfoster]

Hi,

I'm running 5 x USB 8 Port 'Motu Midi Express 128' racks on win8.1 64bit

I'm not sure how anyone can run more than one usb midi hub on windows........the OS just randomly reassigns the names (re-enumeration?) of the devices with reboots and shutdowns, totally unpredictable.

It's just impossible to use CopperLan or any other router, as all the routing's just get lost.

I've been using MidiOx to observe port 1 on each device after reboots and sure enough a controller plugged into port1 on one of the hubs lights up on a different name almost every time and that's without moving usb cables on the back of the pc. I've tried a powered hub with the same result.

I've been using USBDeview app, to look at whats installed and delete orphaned entries...doesn't improve the situation.

Snapshots are useless, they fall victim to changes also...it's just total chaos.

Do you guys know a way in the registry to fix usb devices in address spaces.

Thanks,

Chris

[CopperPhil]

Hi Chris...

I'm afraid we have no other solution than using native CopperLan gear...

Your issue is well known, and this is something we solved with CopperLan. Unlike USB devices each CopperLan device has a strong identity independent of their physical location, even CopperLan USB devices. Thanks to this you can move a CopperLan USB device from computer A to computer B and keep it working without needing to rebuild connections. This is something we've demonstrated in this video, from 5:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTW01D_LkBg

At this time there is no native CopperLan USB-xMIDI gear available. Right now the only CopperLan<->multi-MIDI ports boxes are the Alyseum AL-xx products.

[chrisfoster]

Thanks Phil,

So this would be same scenario on Mac OS also?

...or with USB compliant hubs that dont need drivers?

I'm giving it one last shot by purchasing a 5 port USB3.0 PCI-e card (and disabling all motherboard USB), having them spread over different internal hubs probably wouldn't help...

I guess the Alex ports would be the most effective way to go native, half the cables and ....40+ ports get's expensive, but boy...it sure would be awesome to behold.

With the Alex installed in a hardware synth....that gives 16bit resolution?

Cheers

[CopperPhil]

The problem is the same with Macs... because of the USB devices missing a unique ID, and because a hub... is just a hub, not a smart switch.

The Alex is a CopperLan Ethernet to MIDI interface, nothing else. So it brings your MIDI gear to the CopperLan network, but it can't overpass the MIDI limitations. Nevertheless it's a convenient way to reduce the cables mess, move away from the PC, and to manage connections with your gears by their name.

[chrisfoster]

Ah yes I understand now...

Would it be rocket science for me to retrofit these 8 port hubs with a Copperduino?

I was going to search the Copperduino site but it's currently down.

I see you were interacting with the MidiBox guys regarding the non commercial hardware route, but it didn't go further: http://midibox.org/forums/topic/16905-mbhp-core-lpc17-and-copperlan/?hl=copperlan

Cheers

[CopperPhil]

Yes, seriously, it's huge work to modify a Motu ME128 in order to become CopperLan-ready It's designed to be MIDI USB, its MCU is not able to run the CopperLan stack and doesn't support Ethernet connectivity, so the solution would be adding a CopperLan board hosting the MIDI USB. But multiport MIDI over USB protocol host side is really not easy to code in an embedded software and final global performance would be probably very bad.

BTW, yes Copperduino is on the fridge for the moment. A MIDIBox project has been completed, demonstrating the feasibility. But not enough interest from DIY guys to continue supporting actively these solutions for the moment. We can re-active them when there is a real demand.

[chrisfoster]

..and so the board you were offering to MidiBox which is currently branded as Alex, is not available from the Copperduino site as a non commercial offering?

The cost of entry for 40+ ports seems very high without the non commercial availability, although compared to the high end USB solutions somewhat comparative I guess.

[CopperPhil]

The Alex board is a commercial product available from Alyseum.

We used it with an alternate firmware for the Midibox project.

Yes I understand your concern about the cost, but we are not the manufacturers... I suggest you to contact Alyseum, who knows

[chrisfoster]

I saw the post on 'Legacy Midi devices' and it got me thinking......what if I had 5 x serial port midi interfaces, would that present the same ID problem as with USB?

If there was no issue, would these serial interface hubs present any downside regarding timing?

They can certainly be had for cheap, but I think it was the lack of drivers for modern OS that finished them off....could they be used driver-less with Copperlan?

Cheers

[CopperPhil]

The serial ports are not located behind a hub, they are strongly identified (com1, com2...).

I guess you're talking about the AMT8 or similar. There is indeed a driver issue, no 64bit support. In addition to the difficulty to add several serial interfaces to a computer nowadays... This MIDI interface can be supported by CopperLan as soon it is recognized by the operating system. CopperLan driver works only with native CopperLan devices.