Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 27 Nov 2013, 03:12

Hi

Copperlan 1.2(6) has been intermittently dropping my ethernet controller (realtek 8169 onboard Asus P5K)on a system with 4 pcs. It has only happened to 2 of the machines but mostly one of those, my online machine. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. When its dropped its not available in the drop down list, copperlan is completely blind to the controller. I have suspicions its because of Skype or Network Activity utility. But preventing those from starting has only worked half the time!
All other applications (multiple simultaneously) see the controller and operate normally at the times copperlan doesnt.

The annoying thing is my setup patching is extremely complex and snapshots dont work properly to bring it back. Half the ticks on the restore dialog are greyed out saying (missing) but the ports are clearly there. It seems the snapshot is not storing a comprehensive set of parameters. The entire configuration of the whole network needs storing.

Installing windows 8.1 has broken it again after it was working for a week or so. :cry:

I've only updated the one machine in my 4/5 pc setup to win8.1 and I fear I have done that to soon. However the problem strongly existed before updating as well.

Why does copperlan drop the ethernet card intermittently and how can I stop it?
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby CopperPhil » 27 Nov 2013, 12:32

Hi,

This is the first failure report related to Windows 8, so we need more information to understand what's going on.

It's not 100% sure, but some of the symptoms could be explained by a CopperLan service crash. So this is the first thing to check. Can you tell me if the CPVNM service is still running when CopperLan drops the ethernet controller? If so the CopperLan Manager should tell "No CopperLan" on the bottom right corner.

You can check the service status from the Task Manager (press Ctrl-Alt-Esc), Services tab.
CopperPhil
 
Posts: 476
Joined: 30 Mar 2011, 15:02
Location: Brussels

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 28 Nov 2013, 05:11

Hi Phil thanks for your reply.

This morning its just happened again. Down the bottom right it just says "Local" and as I described before the ethernet card drop down list contains nothining yet here I am checking email in Thunderbird, listening to spotify, surfing the web. The ethernet controller is never dropped from these apps.

In this state I checked and yes CPVNM was running, I have right clicked to restart it and it has hung on "stopping".

I have checked system logs and this morning right after startup I see warning "Network List Manager reports no connectivity to the internet" and windows update cant connect. Also 2 different DCOM errors "The server {BF6C1E47-86EC-4194-9CE5-13C15DCB2001} did not register with DCOM within the required timeout" which I have read are very common in windows 8.1. Many people getting DCOM errors.

Yesterday I went and got the latest realtek 8169 drivers which seem to have been released earlier this month. I also have disabled both skype and my network activity monitor from startup. I did set touchosc bridge to startup though so I'll try disabling that now and restarting.

So I get that maybe my controller has a hiccup when the computer starts up but all the rest of my apps are able to get back up and running in under a minute from startup and I'm online etc. So is it that if copperlan doesnt see the controller straight up it wont recover? Perhaps this would explain why restarting often doesnt help. BTW CPVNM is still hanging, I tried force starting it but it says its already running.

Test: I have just gone into services and set CPVNM to delay its start by 1 minute and to restart upon failure. Standby.
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 28 Nov 2013, 05:27

Yes this time copperlan sees the card and is working as it should. :)

But on other occasions it has been inconsistent/intermittent and it could just as likely be a fluke. :? None the less I will restart from time to time today and see if thats my solution.

BTW I didnt actually disable touchosc so maybe this and skype and network activity monitor dont clash with CL. I'm going to re-enable them all at startup.

Questions:
1) Have I perhaps barked up the wrong tree with this service delay time thing? Although it appears to have got good results I'm just skeptical with all things computers these days.

2) Are there any other services from copperlan that are relevant?

3) The delay time minimum is 1minute and I'm inpatient when I have an idea in my head. Do you think just setting CPNVM to restart on failure will work?

Regards
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 28 Nov 2013, 05:51

Hi again Phil

I forgot to ask if you can address my query on snapshots being effective.

I realize that its a dynamic environment, sometimes I turn my VEPro machines on other times its just my daw etc. But at the state of all 5 machines on and copperlan was working normally I took a snapshot on all pcs via the copperlan app (that may have been overkill I know) but once copperlan lost my ethernet card on the problematic pc which also happens to be the one with many complex patching in CL, recalling the snapshot gave a whole lot of (missing) connections for that machine only.

It's a real drag to have to do that patching again. I did uninstall and re-install on the problem pc but isnt the snapshot the same from anywhere in the network? Either way upon re-install my original snapshot was still there in the problem pc.

It's also worth noting that when it drops my ethernet controller any patching to that pc has lost its location data and is shown as a long string of numbers and the assignment isnt working.

Please make sure in future updates snapshot is robust enough to withstand the "change" or dropping of ethernet controllers. For example if it was able to go off the network name of the pc rather than the mac id of the ethernet card. I could be way out here though. And also a way to export a snapshot to our own folder.

enough ranting...copperlan is an excellent system just want to see it shine...and kick MOLs butt even more :mrgreen:
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby CopperPhil » 28 Nov 2013, 08:01

Hi,

In this state I checked and yes CPVNM was running, I have right clicked to restart it and it has hung on "stopping".


Ok so the service is not crashed, it's just unable to see the ethernet port. At this time you have two CopperLan networks: the first inside this computer, and the second composed of all other interconnected machines. When the ethernet interface is up again, both networks are merging to make one.

And there is a problem on service stopping. Send me an email at pca@copperlan.org then I'll give you a download link to an intermediate build fixing the service stop issue.

BTW I didnt actually disable touchosc so maybe this and skype and network activity monitor dont clash with CL. I'm going to re-enable them all at startup.


I don't think so. CopperLan is not IP based and goes along other protocols like those used by Skype and OSC without interfering.

Yes this time copperlan sees the card and is working as it should.


Good to read!

1) Have I perhaps barked up the wrong tree with this service delay time thing? Although it appears to have got good results I'm just skeptical with all things computers these days.


No you had a very good idea actually! :!: It is possible that the CPVNM service meets some weird issue if the ethernet driver is not yet stable when it's starting. We'll check this to reinforce the VNM about it.

2) Are there any other services from copperlan that are relevant?


No

3) The delay time minimum is 1minute and I'm inpatient when I have an idea in my head. Do you think just setting CPNVM to restart on failure will work?


Yes it should be with the new version I'll give you. Your current version of the VNM has a problem during stopping, this is a reported issue that has been fixed in the forthcoming release.

I forgot to ask if you can address my query on snapshots being effective.


Actually, the snapshot issue is due to the Ethernet port issue... if the problematic PC is disconnected from the network it's just snapshooting itself and the other computers grab information for all machines but the problematic PC... And if the CPVNM service is down for any reason the related software & MIDI ports are not available along the network, so they can't be snapshot.

This is why I started by asking you the CPVNM status when the issue occurs ;)

It's also worth noting that when it drops my ethernet controller any patching to that pc has lost its location data and is shown as a long string of numbers and the assignment isnt working.


This is because the location is not lost actually! The port is not able to locate the destination on the network because it's located on another computer which is not reachable at the moment, but you'll get back the connection as soon the target machine is up on the network again!

...it was able to go off the network name of the pc rather than the mac id of the ethernet card. I could be way out here though. And also a way to export a snapshot to our own folder.


Actually the snapshot is using CopperLan IDs, independent from the machine it's running on. But when you recall a snapshot it's first seeking on the network to check that the target applications are available. It's not the case when your problematic computer is not connected to the rest of the CopperLan network.

But again, you don't have to worry and to re-create your setup each time. The snapshot will be totally recalled as soon the Ethernet port is up and the win8 machine is on the global CopperLan network. Connections are not lost, they just can be unavailable at some time if the target machine is not accessible. But these unavailable connections are automatically reactivated as soon the target is there again.
CopperPhil
 
Posts: 476
Joined: 30 Mar 2011, 15:02
Location: Brussels

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 09 Dec 2013, 17:44

Hi

A few days ago I started up for a session and it was disastrous.

Because the bug that the cpvnm service cant stop, if the service start delay manual setting isnt adequate at the beginning then your hosed. Restarting the pc wasnt helping it catch the NIC again for some reason (even though other apps are online etc)...and then...because the service wont stop, re-installing doesnt work cause it gets to CPoEthAPI.dll and CPVNM'dll and is unable to overwrite because theyre in use.. So I had to go hacking into the registry and also delete the app folder in programs. I have to say the uninstall process still leaves a lot of mess. I never understand why so many apps leave their rubbish around. An uninstall should be clean...good if it leaves your user files but not app dlls etc. Meanwhile client has been waiting for 30min and wants to get started but my whole midi system is down!

So after a bit of hacking and deleting I manage to rid the system of the unstoppable cpvnm so I can install the new beta you sent me, only to have the same problem. Only after a few rash uninstalls and re-installs did I get Copperlan to recognise my standard onboard Realtek 8169 ethernet controller on an ASUS P5k.

Then to make things worse, even though I made doubly sure I previously saved a snapshot with my rather complex patching setup running properly (ie the ethernet card WAS visible, as it always has been when I save a snapshot) only to again be let down by the recall. Please fix this as well, there are 2 separate issues. 1.Dropping ethernet controller and 2. snapshot failing. I repeat ethernet card was visible and functioning normally at the time I did a snapshot. Even though everything is the same when I try to restore (ie after much messing around, re-installs etc to get the NIC visible again) the patching for problem pc is all greyed out and missing. I tried clean and overwrite restores. Recall isnt working properly to intelligently remap, it just drops the bundle. Now with head spinning cause I need that patching for the session to go ahead. I have to take another 15min re-patching.

How are we supposed to re-install or update if the service cant be stopped and how can we backup the whole configuration so that we dont have to rely on the flakey snapshot system?

Rant over and sorry for my frustation.
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 09 Dec 2013, 17:51

Ill just also add that I do have teamviewer running. And I need it. As do many studios (or equivalents like VNC etc) so if copperlan is not playing with virtual drivers that can come with these apps please dont let it stop there. We'll often need apps like teamviewer/vnc more and more in the future.
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby CopperPhil » 09 Dec 2013, 19:24

Hi,

I'm very sorry to read that you still have this issue.

We've identified and fixed the VNM stopping issue last week, and also another issue preventing the VNM to automatically switch back to the previously selected NIC if this interface was not present during the start-up, then going online later.

These problems seem to correspond to what you describe, but they've been fixed and included in the build I gave you last Friday... So I am very confused when you tell me that you still have the problem with this version :?

Some questions to be sure that we're in tune: using the last Friday build,
1) do you still have the VNM stopping issue?
2) when the win8 PC is not able to communicate with the others, do you see "Local" or "No CopperLan" in the bottom right of the CopperLan Manager?
3) at this time, do you see the NIC in the CopperLan Manager's Ethernet port list?
4) are you sure that your skype, Teamviewer or other IP network services are using the same interface than CopperLan? No Wifi around there?

We never got feedback related to an issue due to using any other protocol along CopperLan. As far we know there is no reason why it would not work.

I would like to reproduce your setup here. Can you run this software (download link hereafter), click on "Analyze...", when it's done click on "Copy to clipboard", then paste it in an email to pca@copperlan.org. Please try to perform an analysis:
1) when the Win8 PC is not reachable from the others in CopperLan (from the 8.1 PC and from another PC)
2) when the Win8 PC is part of the CopperLan network BEFORE trying to restore the snapshot (from any PC)
3) after a successful snapshot restore.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/215 ... ngTool.exe

And finally, can you send me your snapshot .cps file? You can find it here: C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\CopperLan Manager\QuickSaves

Be sure that the whole team is looking for the likely cause of your problem.

/Phil
CopperPhil
 
Posts: 476
Joined: 30 Mar 2011, 15:02
Location: Brussels

Re: Ethernet controller and Windows 8/8.1 64bit problems

Postby bcslaam » 10 Dec 2013, 06:56

Hi Phil

Thanks for great support. Answers to qu:

1. yes

2. local

3. No. At the times it was actually working recently it also has seen a new addition (my bluetooth dongle) but when its not working it see's nothing. The list is empty. BTW the issue was happening way before the bluetooth dongle with exactly same characteristics.

4. They are all definitely using the same controller. In other words the controller is functioning for all other programs at the time copperlan doesnt see it. I only have one way to get onto my network from this computer and that is through the onboard realtek 8169. The bluetooth is used for headset.

My studio network is switched by a TPlink SG3216 and I'm using one vlan for the studio pcs which has a trunk bridge to the other vlan which bridges to office and home switches and modems. DHCP is handled by my ASUS RT AC66U. The problem pc is the only pc in the studio set to DHCP since it bridges across the trunk to the internet vlan. The others in the studio vlan are set to manual IP. However this all shouldnt matter because the problem is intermittent and its a case of the cards driver dissappearing in copperlan whilst other apps running can see it and use it normally. BTW I can see all the manually set studio pcs with the problematic pc and use the network normally.

Before writing this I started that report generator you linked to and it has hung at 50% attached are snipped images of the reporter and some of my taskmanger sorted into running services. CPVNM is still stopping, it has hung.

Problem also being when its like this I cant to an uninstall cleanly, it always stops at the dlls still in use.

Regards
Attachments
Capture3.PNG
Capture2.PNG
Capture1.PNG
bcslaam
 
Posts: 26
Joined: 25 Jan 2013, 05:33

Next

Return to General

cron