AL-88c / Ableton Live - Can't send MIDI notes to my Synths

[TintinDesIles]

Hi everybody!

I recently received my Alyseum Al-88c but I have the following issues:

Here is my setup:

Mac Pro Late 2013
3,5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5
16 Go 1867 MHz DDR3 ECC
OS X 10.9.3 (13D65)

Ableton Live 9.6

Alyseum AL-88c
Copperlan 1.4

Ok, so I use it in my home-studio in order to (i) control/sequence my hardware synthesizers through Ableton Live and (ii) control plug-ins and hardware expanders through my master keyboard.

Synths/Expanders are wired to the Al-88c respectively from Alyseum MIDI Out 1 to Alyseum Midi Out 8.
My master keyboard is connected to the Alyseum Midi In 1.
Alyseum is connected to the Mac Pro through Ethernet RJ45 cable.

Here is a simple patch (with one synth) in the Copperlan Manager I have tried:

A- Midi (On Mac Pro) -> VMIDI 1 -> MIDI Virtual Cable -> AL88c -> MIDI Out 1 (wired to the MIDI In of the synth)

B- (From the master KB) AL88-c -> MIDI In 1 -> MIDI Virtual Cable -> Midi (On Mac Pro) -> VMIDI 1

"B" works fine, I can control synth plugins in Live and/or hardware synths with my Master KB or one of my synth...

"A" doesn't work...I open a Midi Track in Live, choose the right Midi path (VMIDI 1 for example), make sure the connection is OK in Copperlan and on the Alyseum, configure correctly my synth preferences (Local OFF/Clock Ext...), launch a MIDI sequence, but NO SOUND AT ALL!!!

I have tried everything...every channels, VMIDI 1,2,3...changed synth preferences, re-installed Copperlan, new cables...

It seems to transmit clock correctly (Tempo LED on my synth), but not the Note messages, so there is no sound.

I think I do not patch the VMIDI output in Copperlan as it should be, maybe the problem is somewhere else, maybe it is simple and obvious, but I can't see it. Please help me!

Thanks for your help,

Tintin

[CopperPhil]

Hi,

It seems that you did everything correctly from CopperLan point of view. When you create a virtual MIDI cable in CopperLan, it creates a connection for each channel + non channel related (clocks/sysex). So if the clock pass through this virtual MIDI cable, then it should be the same for notes.

A simple test would be replacing VMIDI1 by a USB-MIDI adapter and see if you get sound then. If not, then you have a problem in Ableton Live.

Another test can be based on the split capability of CopperLan. You can create multiple connections from the same MIDI->CopperLan port. An operation that could be helpful to understand what is going wrong is to add another virtual MIDI cable from VMIDI1 to VMIDI2, and to check what is incoming into VMIDI2 using a MIDI monitoring software.

And just to know, do you send SYSEX to the expanders from the MIDI sequence?

/Phil

[verstaerker]

another thing to test is to turn off active sensing (i had one synth here wich had problems when i had this turned on)

also make sure (at least for testing) to connect a "full cable" (not seperate channels) in the copperlan manager

and as Phil said already make sure you ableton-live settings are correct by using another midi-solution you might have (for example "track" has to be "on" for the output you want to sue)

[TintinDesIles]

Hi guys!

Thanks for your reply.

1st: I have tried to connect one of my synth (Korg MS-20 mini) to the Mac Pro by using the synth own Usb/MIDI built-in interface and an USB cable. In this condition, Copperlan and Live "see" the MS-20 and I can sequence the synth correctly trough Live.

2nd: I have also tried the following in Copperlan: MIDI On Mac Pro -> VMIDI 1 -> MIDI Virtual Cable -> Korg MS-20 and it works fine (I can sequence the MS-20 trough Live).

3rd: I have downloaded a MIDI Monitor software as you suggested. If I add a MIDI Virtual Cable from VMIDI 1 to VMIDI 2, I can see the clock and note on/off information going out from VMIDI 2 (the information matches with what I have programmed in my Ableton Live sequence...).

@verstaerker, I have tested with both on and off active sensing..."full cable" in the Copperlan Manager...and "track" are on for VMIDI 1/2/3/4 in Live MIDI settings...

@CopperPhil: no Sysex information is sent to expanders for the moment.

Could it be a technical issue of the Alyseum AL-88c?

Thanks again!

Tintin

[CopperPhil]

You see the AL-88 from the CopperLan Manager, and you can create connection to/from it, is it correct?

The connection between the AL-88 and the computer is working, so the problem should be elsewhere...

Now you have a MIDI-USB adapter and a MIDI monitoring software, right? Maybe could you connect the AL-88 MIDI 1 OUT to the MIDI-USB port IN and verify if you see some MIDI traffic generated through the stream Live->VMIDI1->virtual MIDi cable ->AL-88 MIDI 1 OUT.

If you don't see anything, just try to reboot the AL-88. The connections from the computer's VMIDI to the AL-88 will be restored as soon the device is up and running. Then check if the MIDI flow is going out the AL-88.

[verstaerker]

this is getting strange - you obviously testing the right things

maybe one of those points might help finding the problem:
how's the Al-88 connected - straight on the Mac or via an switch? Maybe the switch is faulty?
Is the ethernet-port you are using enabled on the mac?
did you choose the correct ethernet-connection in the copperlan-manager ? (i'm also on a Mac Pro 2013, using the connection called ethernet2 but in the copperlan-manager this is en1)

if everything is there (you see the Al-88) but don't receive any Midi from this device i would also think that you might have a faulty unit

do you have maybe a second computer to test the Al-88?

[TintinDesIles]

Ok,

So, I have tried something simple...

I have physically connected the Alyseum Midi Out 1 to the Alyseum Midi In 2 by using a real Midi cable. Then I have done the following connection in the Copperlan Manager:

MIDI On Mac Pro -> VMIDI 1 -> Virtual MIDI Cable -> AL-88c MIDI Out 1

AL-88c -> MIDI In 2 -> Virtual MIDI Cable -> Midi On Mac Pro -> VMIDI 2

I have launch a sequence through Live (VMIDI 1) and monitored the Midi activity of VMIDI 2... Only clock information is received! No note on/off information.

@CopperPhil: I have tried what you have suggested, still doesn't work...

@verstaerker: I'm going straight to the Mac, no switch used here. The ethernet-port I'm using is enabled on the Mac and I have chosen the correct ethernet connection in the Copperlan Manager.
I have also tested with another computer, still doesn't work.

I'm going to contact Alyseum Tehnical Service. I keep you informed.

Thanks again.

Tintin

[CopperPhil]

This is not a hardware issue, because the clock is going through the chain...

Are you sure that you created a full virtual MIDI cable? did you check in the CopperLan Manager, Connect tab, that the "Ch x separate streams" are also connected?

If so, can you please just disconnect the "Sys" channel from the VMIDI1 to the AL-88? You said that you are not using Sysex, but maybe Live do some hidden sysex for some reason... A Sysex issue in the CopperLan<->MIDI bridging could prevent regular note transmitting while single-byte clock command can continue working.

[TintinDesIles]

Hi Phil,

Yes, "Full Virtual Cable" is used and the "Ch x separate streams" are also connected. I have tried to not use "Sys" Chanel from the VMIDI 1...still doesn't work.

It drives me crazy.

[CopperPhil]

OK, maybe the AL88 or the MIDI->CopperLan bridge is locked due to some "ghost" sysex.

So, try this:
1) disconnect VMIDI1->AL88 virtual MIDI cable (delete all the connections)
2) reboot the AL-88
3) connect only Clk and the MIDI channel you are using from VMIDI1 to the AL-88 (if you are using more than 1 channel, just connect the first one)
4) don't forget to re-create the connection from the AL88 to the Mac because it is not restored after AL88 reboot if you did not save it (the AL88 only remember its connection if you explicitly request a current setup saving)
5) try again