Native Sysex Editor

[chrisfoster]

Hi,

What is the scope for sysex editing from within CopperLan...

As a non programmer without a licence, I assume we will be waiting for developers to jump on board?

I'm at the stage of needing to control a load of outboard gear, but I only want to define this once. I assume CopperLan will be around and functional for a long time so it makes sense to try and do this massive task from a native Copperlan perspective.

Thanks,

Chris

[Copperhead]

Focusing on SYSEX implies that both your sources and targets are MIDI.
In this respect, using CopperLan brings you flexible wiring (channel remapping, merging, splitting) over an entire networked setup and the possibility to store such configuration.
Other aspects of CopperLan are not involved or applicable since MIDI cannot use them.

Connection of MIDI hardware and software via CopperLan can be done with ordinary computers, existing MIDI interfaces (USB, etc) and dedicated CopperLan interfaces (Ethernet - see Alyseum.com).

Therefore, an application written in a MIDI context can perfectly connect to MIDI equipment via CopperLan. The benefit of writing the application with CopperLan capabilities built-in would be to access the sources and targets directly by their CopperLan identity without relying on the CopperLan Manager to do so.

[chrisfoster]

Is there the capability to write a sysex editor with the Freeware SDK?

What programming language are we developing in with this SDK?

Does the SDK lend itself to developing a restful API for CopperLan functionality?

Thanks

[Copperhead]

Is there the capability to write a sysex editor with the Freeware SDK?

Sure, and since CopperLan is MIDI compatible, SYSEX transmission/reception is handled.

What programming language are we developing in with this SDK?

C++

Does the SDK lend itself to developing a restful API for CopperLan functionality?

The SDK is a framework with a rich API ready to set up advanced features all automatically.

[chrisfoster]

A cross posting form the LeapMotion-Geco Bitbucket pages...

There will be no sysex support in Geco....well ok, that functionality would be better implemented within CopperLan to avoid re-inventing the wheel anyhow. Done properly, there will be no need for any other sysex solution for as long as CopperLan lives.

Mr Copperlan has demonstrated direct LeapMotion to Copperlan functionality....sweet!

So a developer comes along and makes a native sysex app for Copperlan on the free SDK and we go LeapMotion->CopperLan direct...no Geco required.

Unless that sysex app (paid) developer is Geco utilizing a commercial CopperLan SDK, it would seem a revenue stream surrendered and even lost sales?

This sysex stuff must truly be rocket science, because probably the only product that takes a serious stab at it is 'Midi Designer' for iPAD i.e we need to spend $600 on hardware just to get this functionality, when hand gestures are an equally capable method of control.

If Geco will not develop a paid app for CopperLan or indeed a free one, could you please use your connections in the C++ community and bring this opportunity to their attention, thereby cutting your own lunch

Mr CopperLan did mention that their are others lining up behind the CME controller keyboard due this year. Maybe there is a hardware controller in the works that is going to do handle this.....otherwise I cannot fathom how an enterprising developer can pass up the opportunity to touch so many dusty hardware devices sitting in closets around the world.

It's definitely a chicken and egg story, because folk wont realize the potential of that old hardware until a LeapMotion-CopperLan solution is presented on say a YouTube video....a groundswell.

And come to think of it, why wouldn't CoppeLan themselves make this happen as a feedback mechanism for their product. I see sysex as core for CopperLan, not a nice to have.

[CopperPhil]

Hi,

Ok, I took a look at MIDI Designer for iPad and I see what you mean.

Things are working a little bit differently in MIDI and CopperLan. In MIDI, the controller must be configured to send the right message in order to be understood by the target. And so the controller configuration can be quite complicated since the user must know exactly the CC, Sysex or NRPN matching this or that target's parameter. This is the tricky configuration job to be done in Geco (for example) if you're using pure MIDI or OSC.

A CopperLan controller (Geco in CopperLan mode) does not need to be configured manually, it is learning automatically what should be sent when it is connected to a target parameter. Moreover it receives automatically current the value feedback to be displayed or to be used to synchronize slider/knob buttons position (this feature is not yet used in Geco).

Given this, the controller is not the right place for a Sysex editor. Ideally a CopperLan-to-MIDI bridge should be configurable to expose a set of CopperLan parameters reflecting the MIDI target items and values. And so the MIDI target can be seen as a CopperLan target on the network, supporting all enhanced CopperLan features like learning, SmartConnect, Snapshot...

We've already validated this idea, it is technically possible. And so I'm sure it will be implemented in a hardware/software product at a given time.

Things are moving, please be patient

[chrisfoster]

Thanks,

Patient? haha been holding off almost 2 years now for jumping on MidiDesigner because like you say..it may not be the best place for sysex editor/librarian.

You seem to indicate that the code is there to make this happen, but it would not be CopperLan themselves making this vital component.
Maybe CME are reworking the Bitstream controller with CL apps...who knows except for you

No one likes to reinvent the wheel, so I would hope you could get permission (from any developer) to provide a guesstimate of implementation times?

Can you say, wait x months...it will be ok?

It's frustrating because as a non programmer, I will have to pester some developers to take up this opportunity at my expense if were talking much longer than 6 months.

Chris

[CopperPhil]

Be sure I understand your concern. But CopperLan's role is to provide technology (and dev tools, and proof of concepts, and documentation, and support, and...) to 3rd party developers, not to take their place! You know, it's already a more than full-time job

Seriously, you're right when you say that no one like to reinvent the wheel, and it is precisely why CopperLan is not just a protocol like MIDI but a complete framework. And so it can be very fast to add CopperLan into an existing product (Geco is the perfect example) or to create new products based on it.

I can't say when this MIDI target supporting Sysex will be available, but I'm confident it's more a question of months than years.

[chrisfoster]

Thanks,

I understand you have spent so much time building this...it's a great service you have provided free of cost already and are just starting to see a little payback with manufacturers coming on board.

'MIDI target supporting Sysex' is that in the framework, ready to be built on. Or are you saying it needs completing before a third party can start to develop on it?

If the code is there, ready for a third party to build upon...would you have a guestimate range of how many hours of skilled development would be required to build a comprehensive sysex editor/librarian?

Are you developing an App store...something like LeapMotion...or it's up to developers to promote/sell themselves?

It's a funny situation, as I could attempt to say get an opensource solution happening, whilst there might be a paid app already being worked on...maybe not so good for that developer. Maybe from your perspective the more activity the better regardless.

Chris

[chrisfoster]

Patch Morpher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ6LkES4WTk

Looks like a game changer in getting control of hardware...get this happening over CopperLan and I can break out the feather duster.